• [Updated] 1-Star Review from Bobby Stephens (from BBB) [Updated to 4-star 5/9/18]

  • Have a great experience? Let us and others know · 4-Stars
Have a great experience? Let us and others know · 4-Stars
 #11397  by Aggregate Reviews
 Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:16 am
Update 5/9/18:

Travis,
Your honesty says a lot. I think and feel that people need to be aware of it. When you say that you have done more than most companies would, you're absolutely right and, for that I feel you should be recognized. If I was to re rate buggy depot, I would have a hard time putting it in the correct category. I'll let you decide on the final placement.

Re rating the company is tough at this point. The Honesty and INTEGRITY of the owner (Travis) deserves a 5 star rating. Travis could have told everyone that my measurements and pics were wrong or fake but he didn't. The company made a mistake and he publicly admitted it. Most people would not have done this.

When it comes to fabrications and saving older buggies, Travis is pure genius. The reverse set up that he came up with for my Tomberline Crossfire R is impressive to say the very least. If it wasn't for the kit that he created, I would be stuck with a buggy that would only go forward. Most of us in this hobby can agree, reverse is almost an necessity! Especially when it is our children that are running the karts!

I personally feel that the company itself could improve in a few areas so my rating for the company would be a 4 star rating.

Keeping in mind these are based on my experience and my thoughts, I feel that the company could improve on the following:

1. The company is hard to reach via phone or email. I'm not sure if this is due to technical difficulties or just the lack of response.
2. The company should take care when packaging and sending out merchandise. When it appears that everything was simply thrown in a box and shipped without concern, it makes the consumer weary and/or concerned.
3. The company could improve on quality control. Twice I either received the wrong parts or missing parts.

Though there was frustrations and a lot of back and forth, Buggy Depot took time to correct any issues and time to ensure that the customer (myself) was satisfied.

Original 1-star Review:
***WARNING*** if you want to receive parts in a timely manner and want everthing that you ordered and paid for, DO NOT BUY FROM BUGGYDEPOT! Originally I purchased a 175cc engine, paid extra $60 for a longer output shaft and have it installed. Almost a month later my engine arrived. Unknown to me at the time, they did not give me or install the larger out put shaft that I paid for. Upon arrival I learned that their "verified fit" engine needed a conversion kit in order to "fit" my buggy. Later I went ahead and purchased the conversion kit needed to get my buggy running. Once again I waited a month for my order to ship. When I finally recieved my order, it appeared as if everything was just thrown in a box that was to small and shipped out. As I unpacked my long awaited order I realized that I was missing the chain, the shift lever, and the nuts and bolts that mount the brackets. To my suprise there also sat the larger output shaft that I paid for and paid to have installed. Fusterated, I called the business and spoke with sammy. After I explained to her what had happened, she apologized, offered to send my missing items, and even offered a $30 store credit. Even though the cost of the output shaft installation was $40, I accepted what she offered. (I wasnt complaining for a free handout. I just wanted my parts) unfortunatly here we are again. 2 weeks, a few e-mails ,and numerous phone calls later, I have yet to recieve my store credit. These folks are obviously in no hurry to take care of their customers. After the fact, I've read very simular rating and reviews from other customers. This seems to be a continuous issue with this company. Im even left questioning whether I recieved the correct engine and, they have no way of verifying that I did. I honestly belive that i recieved a 150 cc engine insted of the 175cc that I paid for. Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is by disassembling this brand new engine and looking for a stamp on top of the piston.

Review By: Bobby Stephens
 #11404  by Travis @ Buggy Depot
 Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:31 am
I feel the issue at the core of this interaction is that Bobby and I have a deep difference of personalities. If I'm being completely honest, I read Bobby's recent emails but did not respond. I didn't intend to outright ignore him, but with each message, I recall weighing taking the time to respond versus responding to the other people I needed to help those days, and made the decision to prioritize them over this situation.

This isn't directly Bobby's fault, and I want to point out that don't think most people responding to this complaint would admit the bias. But it's the decision I made, and I take responsibility for it. It is what it is. For the record, I feel that I tend to de-prioritize issues that I feel are a little overly dramatic, unreasonably distrustful, or a person isn't taking responsibility for their own errors in the situation. That baggage added on top of the situation, IMO, takes too much time to cut through, when there are 3 - 4 people I can help with the same amount of effort. I don't mean to say that as a passive aggressive statement, I'm directly saying that I perceive Bobby's interactions as these things. With limited hours in the day, and a seemingly unlimited number of problems to resolve daily, I have to put my attention where I feel it will have the most impact. However, I believe we still owe Bobby some parts, and we'll definitely take care of that to get him up and riding again.

Bobby if you're reading this, please register and talk with me here. I would like for us to talk here in public in this thread moving forward to work towards resolutions to any issues still hanging out there on this order. I'll respond to each concern raised in the BBB complaint:

Concern #1: The shaft should have been installed before shipping
Bobby is right, this was an oversight on our end. I feel that it's fair to point out that the offer to install the shaft was free, not part of the $65 price of shaft itself. While it was still our mistake, we offered to do that for free and I feel it should be represented that way.

Concern #2: Credit wasn't received on time
Bobby is also right on this one, I issued the credit late on 1/9/18. However, the delay wasn't out of a lack of caring. See the reason above.

Concern #3: Learning about needing the Conversion Kit after receiving the engine (Please read the product description)
Unfortunately this is a common problem: there really is no way around it, before buying you have to read the product description page, or there will be unexpected hassles and costs involved with the order. We now have three prominent notices on the page that a compatibility kit is needed for the Crossfire 150R, phrased three different ways at this point so the message gets through. At the time Bobby ordered, two of those notes existed, one asking the reader to contact us for more information [about compatibility] *before* ordering.

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I also wrote a complete article on the subject of Crossfire 150R engine compatibility in 2014:
https://www.buggydepot.com/tech-center/ ... e-options/

I disagree with the claim that we're not doing enough to make sure buyers are aware of compatibility information. I put in a lot of effort to make the relevant information available. To all, if you're considering purchasing online (anywhere, not just from us) please read the product description fully to avoid this kind of frustration on both sides.

Buyers hitting "add to cart" before reading the listings for important information has become a very big problem. After seeing this with Bobby's situation, then Xtreme Toyz, I took measures to prevent this moving forward. I ended up coding an obtrusive screen-wide popup on our website that stops people from adding an item to their basket if it detects that they've only scrolled down 30% or less. I try to make sure that the right information is available and understood up front. But it has to be read in order to matter. Reading the listing thoroughly is the best way to make sure that expectations match the reality of the situation as closely as possible at the very beginning. That way there are no surprises later on.

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Concern #4: Orders arrived late, Missing chain and shift lever, nuts, bolts.
Bobby is right about this as well. The missing components were an oversight in shipping. I think this is the issue we need to wrap up.

Concern #5: 175cc is suspected to be 150cc
There's no way the 175cc engine was shipped with the smaller 150cc cylinder. We have 150cc components physically separated in a different room from 175cc components, specifically to avoid a builder mixup. Still Bobby, if this is a legitimate concern I will provide instructions for disassembly and re-assembly of the cylinder so you can see for himself.

I provided "no way to verify" that the engine is 175cc
Well no Bobby, this is untrue. I did offer a way to verify that was less invasive. I suggested that you remove the sparkplug and shine a light into the hole. "62" should be visible from the spark plug hole. 62mm is the piston diameter for 175cc, whereas 57.4mm is the diameter for 150cc. The printed 62 is not a raised surface, it's a light scribe, so it may not be immediately readable if there is any carbon on the top of the piston from testing. Still, it should be there.

Beyond this, there are several owners of my 175cc engines here on the forums. If they wish to speak with their thoughts on the difference in power, etc, after installing their 175, I would appreciate it. If there is any doubt with anyone that we've been sending out 150's instead of 175's, I urge them to reply here and let's dig into that conversation.

Concern #5: $30 Store Credit Offered (too little?)
My reps are trained to offer up to $30 store credit on their own to help resolve situations. Sami did the right thing. Also, I want to point out again that the offer on our end to install the shaft was free and cost the buyer nothing in this transaction. The usual $40 charge didn't apply when we took the order, so I disagree with being held to $40 and anything less being perceived as a point of complaint. An equally valid answer could have been "Sorry for the mistake, but we didn't charge you for that anyway and it's intended to be a favor, so there isn't anything we can do." That's not the way we do things though. Sami offering the full amount that she's authorized to give on her own was the right thing to do.

In summary...
Bobby if you're reading this, please register and talk with me here. I would like for us to talk here in public in this thread moving forward to work towards resolutions to the issues still hanging out there on this order.
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 #11406  by Travis @ Buggy Depot
 Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 am
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 #11407  by myvt365
 Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:30 pm
In regards to this review I would like to shed some light in my experience with BD.

When I started my build I had a stock yerfdog that sat for 10 years in a garage. I got the engine running but it eventfully blew up and scored the piston and head. Now when I got this buggy I ran the 150cc in the exact same conditions here in GA. my drive way is 7% grade uphill for about 200 ft with the original stock engine and stock buggy the engine would not make it up my driveway with 2 adults. After the engine locked up I decided to try to get more power out of this engine so I ordered the BD 150cc to replace my locked up engine. When I did this I ordered the performance modifications to try and add more power. I ordered the UNI air filter set up and the entire electrical system ie cdi, resistor, rectifier, fuse, starting solenoid, ngk plug, and coil. I also ordered another factory carb and 39 tooth sprocket. With this I had a little more power but still not the effect I needed for my driveway. Max speed I clocked was roughly 33 mph using gps only difference was the engine I wasnt able to achieve the torque needed to climb my driveway with 2 adults. After calling Buggy Depot they advised me that the 175cc would give me the power I needed. I went with this option and what a dramatic improvement it was like comparing apples to bananas. with all those same products to the concerns of a BD 150 vs a BD 175 I wanted to put my opinions on this and my real world test.

After this I was obsessed and was greatly happy with the service and the 175cc product in response to my testing I wanted everything for my 5 yr old to enjoy the buggy as much as I did. I went ahead and ordered the reverse kit the atv front upgrade atv front tires and the mikuni vm26-606 carb and the stage 2 lift kit. With all the upgrades this unit had an undeniable power increase between the 150cc and the 175cc engine. A year later my 175cc is still performing amazing even able to do donuts!!!! I have recently even added mush more weight I put my yerf on 25 in Polaris wheels with 12 inch rims and wheel adapters again pushing the limits far past the what BD designed their products to do. If I had to guess each wheel is about 20 pounds and each adapter is about another 3-5 pounds that's about another 25 pounds of stress on each wheel and still the atv hubs and 175cc engine is taking it. With this all said and done me my wife and son can all be in the buggy with the 175 and make it up my drive way.

As far as customer support I will have to say that I have called BD many times and many emails in regards to my concerns with products and issues I have ran into. I can be humbly honest that the team at BD has helped me with many stupid mistakes on my part and any concerns were rapidly addressed. Even the point at thanksgiving I needed the engine very rapidly because I had many nieces and nephews coming that wanted to experience the unit. Not only did BD make this happen but did so under pressure I had the engine out in an hour and shipped to VA to make my engine a 175cc. With the extreme dedication of this company I had the engine in and running Friday of the same week with an undeniable increase in sheer power.

Reviews like this are hard to read for any consumer but take my experience and let it shed light on the expertise of a company that wants to help a consumer. I have personally invested a lot of money in BD and almost every part they have to offer. I will gladly share my 150cc to 175cc experience to anyone with any doubt even if anyone wishes to call me directly. Although the prices are expensive you cant put a price tag on my child's face or the experiences that him and I can enjoy together.
 #11413  by Bobby
 Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:44 pm
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Travis, Let me start out by stating, In your response you have validated the fact that you or your business lacks care or concern for the consumer.
Whether you felt that I was being "over dramatic" or not, I am/was a customer with valid concerns and, If you or your business would have simply responded to me, all of this could have been avoided. The "fact that you de prioritized" me because you thought I was being "over dramatic" or ," un reasonably dishonest" is even more upsetting. In no way did I say anything that was dishonest or misleading , and feel if nothing else, have been extremely patient .
I did in fact take responsibility for not reading deeper into the "verified fit" of the engine. However, If it were up to me, I would remove the "verified fit" box to alleviate confusion. That was not then nor is it now a concern. The concerns are with the way things are handled in a timely manner and the lack of response from you or your team.

Lets review the facts and hopefully you can understand them from a customers point of view.

1. I ordered a 175cc engine from you. I also ordered a lager output shaft from you (my buggy has reverse) and, a larger carburetor. It took a month to ship but, I wasn't complaining. After all I ordered an engine with a larger bore, an electrical upgrade, and a cvt upgrade (so your ad says). So it was worth the wait.
At this time there are no issues. I have to admit I was disappointed with myself for not reading more into the add and noticing that I needed the capability kit. I did however read into it enough to know that I needed the larger output shaft for my reverse. (which is why I ordered it). Let me again say, I had no issues at this point.

2. A short time later (when I could afford) I ordered your capability kit. I must admit, whoever designed and came up with this kit is pure genus! It's a awesome save for those of us who have older karts. However, It did in fact take up to a month to ship.
When I received it, it was missing parts. Main component parts! Such as the chain, the shift lever, nuts and bolts. The package appeared as if everything was just throw in a box that was to small to hold what was inside. But, what stood out most for me was, there in that little box was a larger output shaft? I thought to myself, "why am I getting another output shaft? that wasn't part of the kit." so, I compared the shaft on the engine and the shaft in my hand. Sure enough, by some crazy coincidence, I was receiving the larger output shaft that I originally ordered with the engine.
This is where my issues began. Whether you do it as a favor or not, when I ordered my engine I also ordered the larger output shaft with the impressions that it would be installed for me. That's what your add stated and that's what I expected. This combined with the packaging and missing parts left me asking questions like " why wasn't this shaft installed in the first place?" "why am I receiving it after the fact?" "when it comes to the engine, did they mess up my order?" I mean after all they totally missed the output shaft during the build.
Ask yourself, If you were me, what would you be feeling at this point? what would your concerns be?
I sent out an e-mail explaining the missing parts and later received a call from Sami. As I stated in my phone calls and previous e-mails, Sami was very polite and carried on a good conversation. She apologized for the mix up and offered a credit. (which by the way, also took a month to get) I explained to her that because I am mechanically inclined, I felt comfortable in changing out the shaft but was concerned with why it wasn't installed in the first place. At that time I questioned whether I received the correct engine and I voiced that. Like you said in your above statement, I was told there was no real way of identifying the engine displacement with the exception of the 62 stamp located on the top of the piston. I took the advise that was given to me which was to remove the spark plug and look through it's hole but, I could not see the top of the piston.
I didn't want to tear down a bran new engine so I took out and used my video scope. I ran my scope down the spark plug hole where I could get a good view of the piston top and the cylinder walls inside. The only markings on the piston is an arrow. I took pictures of what I saw with my scope. They may be a little hard to make out (taking a picture of a picture) but you can clearly see that there is no 62 stamped on the top of the piston. I stated this in the last e-mail which you chose to ignore.

Here is where the frustrations escalate. Because you felt that I was being "overly dramatic" and a "low priority", you chose to ignore me. As you can see (or I so hope) I have valid reasons for being concerned and valid concerns. I simply want to make sure that I got what I paid for. If it weren't for all the issues stated above I wouldn't even have the concern. But you choose to avoid conversation with me which leaves me asking " who is it that really is being "un reasonably dishonest"?
How do we plan on resolving my concerns? Like you, I now have way too much time vested in this and, like you my time is valuable.
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 #11414  by Travis @ Buggy Depot
 Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:22 pm
I didn't say (and I don't feel) that you're dishonest. I think your perception of certain things are off the mark, but I don't think you're lying. Also, I know you have been very patient. Both orders shipped late and these are valid issues.
Travis, Let me start out by stating, In your response you have validated the fact that you or your business lacks care or concern for the consumer. Whether you felt that I was being "over dramatic" or not, I am/was a customer with valid concerns and, If you or your business would have simply responded to me, all of this could have been avoided. The "fact that you de prioritized" me because you thought I was being "over dramatic" or ," un reasonably dishonest" is even more upsetting.

If anything, I care a little too much. It's the reason this support forum exists, the reason your compatibility kits exist, and the reason I respond to these situations the way that I do. I don't see any of my peers in the market spending any time on these things.

You've already given me your 1-star review. If I didn't care about your situation, the easy thing for me to do would just be to write a quick polite generic response to the BBB and be done with this. However, I've spent more raw hours trying to reach agreement with you on your concerns this week than I've spent on the next several customers in line (combined) needing my help. And I wouldn't blame them for being a bit upset with me over this. Specifically these guys waiting for resolution on A-Arm delays right now. I care about your issues, but NOT more than I care about theirs. I am willing to help, but not at the expense of everyone else wanting to ride just as much as you.

Still, regardless of my own personal issues with our interactions, you still deserved a response at some point after my last email to you - late or not. The same with the late credit. I accept responsibility for those two points of complaint, and I said my piece as to why. The cheap and easy way out for me would be to make up a lame excuse like "your emails got lost in my junk mail", but that's not the truth. I gave my perspective and I stand by that.

I can't spend more time on this past this post. I need to know exactly which parts you need right now from us in order to get up and running as quickly as possible. The rest might feel good for you to vent, but is completely irrelevant to actually resolving the problems and getting you riding.

I've answered these other concerns several times, I'm hoping this will be the last and that you'll actually consider what I'm saying:

Where we got off to a bad start...
I agree with your point that small oversights will lead into bigger and bigger problems with trust. The biggest hit to your trust towards us was when you realized that you needed a compatibility kit after the engine arrived. This hit to your confidence started by not reading the compatibility information in the listing, and festered as we continued interacting. The mistake on our end with the shaft came after. The shaft installation is a valid issue that we dropped the ball on, but when it comes to trust, the oversight in not fully reading the listing is what got things off to a bad start.

Shifting personal responsibility...
Until your reply today, you've maintained that we were at fault and shipped you the wrong engine. "Upon arrival I learned that their 'verified fit' engine needed a conversion kit in order to 'fit' my buggy." are the exact words in your complaint, and the implication is clear. If you misspoke, that's fine. But I don't buy the attempt at being cooperative on this point today now that we're in a public conversation, after being stubbornly uncooperative about this in our private communication and in your statements to the BBB.

Still, I appreciate that it isn't a point of dispute anymore. The screenshots make it difficult to keep arguing that we aren't doing enough to make you aware of the details.

...and shifting statements
Your statements to the BBB: "Im even left questioning whether I recieved the correct engine and, they have no way of verifying that I did."

Your statement today: "I took the advise that was given to me which was to remove the spark plug and look through it's hole but, I could not see the top of the piston."

I'm not saying you're dishonest, but you definitely aren't consistent from interaction to interaction. I'm not trying to be an ass on this point. My reason for bringing this up is to highlight what feels like an "always moving target" when trying to reach an agreement with you on these issues. In several instances you're not agreeing with yourself, and this inconsistency makes it very difficult to move forward to a final resolution.

Getting shafted...
The bottom line on that shaft is that it should have been in that engine, no excuses. You missed my point: I don't consider the shaft installation a favor or something we can slide out of just because it was free. I stated "favor" to contrast our actual response, with an example what I feel would be a very crappy (but equally technically valid) response. We didn't try to wiggle out on a technicality like other places are notorious for. Sami did exactly the right thing by offering you a $30 credit right away, immediately. I can name a long list of competing places that you would have had to fight with just to get any credit or gratification at all. That was the comparison I was drawing. You got immediate acknowledgement and an credit offer from us, the maximum amount she's authorized to give. If you felt it wasn't enough at the time, the concern should have been voiced then and there.

Verified Fit is here to stay
The #1 issue with parts for Chinese vehicles is that nobody knows what fits what. Sellers least of all. My verified fit system solves that problem, and there is no way on Earth I'm removing it. Everyone else across the board (with a few exceptions) finds it extremely helpful, because it is. Just read the listing!

At this point I think what is actually important in this situation are these two questions:

1. Which parts do you believe you currently not have? I want these to be in your hands immediately. I think you've already mentioned them, but you can't reasonably expect me to cut through all of the extra words just to get to the small bits of information that I actually need in order to help. For me, the bloat of useless accusations and mistrust in our conversations is exactly what causes me to decide to circle back around to an issue later rather than dealing with it immediately. Please just let me know what those items are so we can get them in your hands.

2. I'm not able to see much on your scope cam because of the glare from ambient lighting in the area. Can you repeat the pictures in a dark area?


Drawing a line... engine size
Send me a good picture. Beyond that, this isn't something I'm willing to keep talking about. If you don't have enough confidence to take me at my word at this point, I'm not willing to pay for what I feel crosses the line into paranoia and tin foil. The burden falls on you to show positive proof that you have a bore size less than 62mm. I see two options:

Option 1: Remove the head and send me a picture of the cylinder diameter measured with calipers. If your mistrust is justified, I'll rightfully eat a large dose of crow and will pay to make it right just like any valid warranty claim.

Option 2: Send the engine back and I'll disassemble it myself. If it is not 175cc, I'll pay the costs of making the situation right, shipping, etc. However if if is a 175cc as described, you're going to have to pay the costs of all shipping involved and my time.

If we screwed up on the bore size somehow, I've got you covered. Otherwise, I feel that I've been patient with this specific concern long enough. Speculation based on your own trust levels isn't enough. I don't intend to consider this any further without some clear evidence.

Moving forward:
I just need to know exactly what you feel is missing at this point. We don't need to beat around the bush on any other issue, I think we've said enough. Just let me know what you need and let's move on.
 #11420  by Bobby
 Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:55 pm
Travis,
Thank you for finally giving me the next step in our process. Here's what I found.
Most of us know that when taking measurements, ambient temperature and the items being measured, should be around 68-70 degrees. (common metallurgy) So, due to the weather here in Colorado, you will see in my pictures part of my kitchen. Please excuse the mess.
As you can see I tore down the top end of the engine. I'm slightly confused simply because things are not matching up. when I say things I mean, things like you stating that I should see a 62 stamp on top of the piston. In your add you have a picture that shows what I SHOULD be seeing. I've attached your pic also for reference.
I don't see it on the piston I have
Now on the off chance that during your testing of the engine and my testing of the engine the stamp got burnt down/off, I went ahead and made the decision to take measurements. My measurement of the bore was 60.95mm. my measurement of the stroke was 58.7. My calculation for actual displacement is 171cc? Because I want to make sure that I am completely correct and honest with my measurements, I also made the decision to take the motor in its entirety to Apex Sports, INC. located here in Colorado Springs. Attached you will see their measurements. You will also see that there was no exchange in money. The only thing vested is time. That way both sides remain neutral and have nothing to gain.
So when It is said and done I DO NOT HAVE A 150cc engine. I have a 171cc. Is this the engine I'm suppose to have? Below is a direct quote from your add.
"Guaranteed true 175cc"
" Don't be tricked by "200cc" and "180cc" engines on the internet that are actually 171cc. Our engine uses a high quality 62mm piston for exactly 174.5cc actual displacement."

I'm not sure what happened with the side of the piston. I'm guessing that because it's on the exhaust side, that at some point (between your test and my test) the engine ran lean and started to seize? What are your thoughts?

I'm going to go ahead and look further into the engine and see if I got the electrical upgrade and the cvt upgrade. (just to make sure)
In the mean time, Please advise me further on what needs to be done.
Thank you,
Bobby
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 #11421  by Travis @ Buggy Depot
 Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:05 pm
You've got my attention. Not dismissing your tests, but the biggest issue I have with your numbers right off the bat is that there is no such thing as 57.32mm stroke length for the GY6. Our stroke is 57.8mm, stock length. The whopping -0.5mm inaccuracy from APEX needs to be explained and corrected if we're going to use their data. Your 58.7 number was close. I feel that the most likely issue here is that the calipers being used were not zero'ed properly.

I don't stock 61mm cylinders. I do stock 61mm pistons and rings for guys who bought kits elsewhere and want a replacement slug, but I've never stocked 61mm cylinders or kits. The 62mm big bore kit goes into our 175cc builds (174.5cc actual is correct).

If your numbers are accurate, looking at the scuffing, the simplest explanation would be that one of the 61mm pistons somehow ended up being installed into your 62mm cylinder. That's a tough thing for me to imagine happening, because the 61mm pistons are physically shelved 200ft away through 2 doors from the room where my engines are built. Still, if your numbers are right, that's what makes the most sense. And the scuffing backs that up.

There isn't any way the 62 stamp burned off. Apparently it was never stamped from the factory, which should have raised an immediate red flag. Now that I've seen this, I'm going to make this a checkpoint during builds. We'll meet and cover that on Monday.

I believe where we are at this point is that I need to know exactly how you and APEX took your measurements, and exactly where. I need to feel a bit more confidence in the measurements before I offer suggestions for moving forward.

You and I have had a number of differences. However, if you're expecting trouble getting warranty from me because you've had the engine past the warranty period, don't worry. That's not a problem. If I believe we shipped a defect, I've always fixed the issue regardless of the amount of time that's passed. If you want an example, read William J's experience at this link:

"GY6 Engine Warranty Service" by williamejennings
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williamejennings wrote: I halfway expected the reply to be "we are really sorry but your engine is beyond the warranty period, so best of luck to you". Instead, Travis and I had a real discussion about some of the issues my engine was having and that he has seen this problem before. The net result was he agreed to pay for the entire cost of shipping and repairing my GY6 engine.

I can't really "advertise" being this flexible on warranty because it would get abused. In any case, if I believe we messed up, I fix it.

Also, you can calculate displacement size easier with my article and calculator here:

GY6 Big Bore & Stroker Explanation and Calculator
https://www.buggydepot.com/tech-center/ ... alculator/

My engines are 174.5cc actual. The wording in my 175cc listing calls out sellers ripping people off with "200cc" engines that are actually 171cc. As well as eBay sellers sending out 125cc engines instead of 150cc, and telling people "it's the same power" when word got out and they had to respond. As much as I call the frauds out, I take this stuff seriously. There has to be something more than the suspicion alone that we had before. Your numbers have my attention now, but we need to confirm them. Right or wrong, we'll get to the bottom of this.
 #11422  by Bobby
 Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:06 am
Travis,
Thank you for the response. I'll be hones with you, I wasn't expecting a response today beings that it is Saturday. I greatly appreciate it.
My caliper was zeroed, checked and double checked. As far as Apex's tools go, I don't know. However, they are a professional motor cross shop. Feel free to call them. Their number is on the invoice that I have taken a picture of.

Look, no matter how I try to take this measurement of the bore, I always come out with the correct measurement of 60.95. Apex and myself came up with the same bore measurement. I took my measurements at the top of the cylinder. many different places and different ways. Please refer to my pics.
I measured the piston at the piston top, and 90 degrees from the connecting rod pin center. My top measurement was 60.06 and my bottom measurement was 60.9. This makes sense right? Cause oil clearance is going to be in the 10 thousands of an inch. correct?
As far as stroke goes, I took my measurements (with the piston on) from BDC (bottom dead center) to the top of the cylinder wall. Once again, as far as Apex goes, I'm not sure where they took their measurements. There is only one way that I am aware of to get measurements for stroke. However, they are a professional motor cross shop. Even if I use your number 57.8mm, the displacement isn't going to line up. (164cc) I'm pretty sure that no matter how manipulated the stroke gets , with a bore size like this there's no way to reach 174. Maybe there is. I don't know

Let's just set all that a side for a moment. I'm sure both of us can see, by the scaring/scruffing on the side of the piston this engine was going to self destruct anyways. Before it's said, I did in fact make sure that I filled the oil and gear oil before I even turned the engine once.
I'm not sure if I got the correct cvt upgrade. As you can see in my pic, my weights are orange. The weights in the pics you show in your add are green. Beings that I have no way of weighing these at this time I'll simply ask. Are these the correct weights?
By our conversations, I can tell that you run a pretty tight shop . But, things happen and I get that. All I want is what I paid for. I haven't, nor will I ask for anything more than what I paid for. I think I've stated this before. If you want to offer something more as a gesture of good business that's fine. I'm sure you noticed I still haven't used that store credit. Like I said I'm not looking for a "free be" or hand out, all I want is what I paid for which was a 175cc engine (174.5cc) with the advertised upgrades and the installed large out put shaft. I ordered this engine because I didn't want the hassle of doing a rebuild or anything else. Not because I can't do a rebuild but because I didn't want to. I wanted to simply slip it into the kart and go have fun.

So, I've came up with what I hope both of us might think is fair.
1. You send me a new engine. One that is the correct displacement (174.5cc), that has the correct upgrades, and has the larger output shaft ALREADY installed. Scratch this one off as warranty or miss ship what ever works best for you.
2. I send back the engine I currently have and both output shafts.
I'm willing to help pay for part of the shipping cost as long as I can afford it. How much would shipping cost going both ways? Heck If its reasonable I might even pay for full cost. I've even given some thought to paying extra to have the engine that you send me bored and stroked to that 180 something cc that I saw on your add. But first we have got to reach an agreement.
Can we agree on this?
I really don't know what more you want from me. I have done everything that you have asked and, have shown proof of everything. I really have nothing to gain from all of this.
Thank you for your time,
Bobby
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 #11432  by Bobby
 Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:35 pm
Travis,
Did I become low priority again? I'm posting another reply only because it's been a few days and you haven't responded. I need to let you know that beings this matter has gone to the BBB it is time sensitive. They are expecting a response from me and I'm running out of time. I sent them an email hoping to get more time or advice on how to proceed.
I would greatly appreciate a response
Thank you for your time
Bobby J Stephens