• Front brake kit-wheel hubs

  • If you've got some feedback for me but aren't ready to write a review, here's the place to voice your concern or comments. I'll also post explanations of the policies that help our programs function. -T@BD
If you've got some feedback for me but aren't ready to write a review, here's the place to voice your concern or comments. I'll also post explanations of the policies that help our programs function. -T@BD
 #11481  by CheethaSpeed
 Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:21 pm
Hey Travis,

Front brake kit- I’m going to have to have a compatibility issue with hubs, an issue I’m sure you’ve considered. I can work it out locally, but thought I’d ask first. I already have 4 on 4 lug wheels and 5/8 Azusa tapered bearing steel plated hub and special lug nuts. I could spend more money on your hubs then more money on hub wheel adapters, but I’d rather mod my hubs to fit. Seams like a cut out plate to weld to my hub would best serve me, and help yerf guys take advantage of cool cheap supply of custom golf cart wheels with your kit. I’ll ship them on over ;) Let me know
 #11488  by myvt365
 Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:35 am
I did this front brake conversion yesterday it took a bit longer then I would have liked and I did have to adapt some things on it. All in all it works flawlessly really helps with breaking downhill! You need 2 people if your going to bench bleed the master cylinder. When I did it I had to tie the reservoir up very high and invert the master cylinder the piston and spring are held in by a snap ring make sure you have a good pair of snap ring pliers! it wasn't hard to bleed at all but I did make a huge mess and like I said I did adapt some parts of this kit to make it work. Let me know if you have any issues lie I said I just did it.
 #11495  by CheethaSpeed
 Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 pm
I haven’t finished mine because I haven’t left anything alone. I’m not in a hurry for front brakes with already a better rear dual line rear caliper, and I’m considering a second hydro e brake for fun :twisted: at that would be easier than fronts since I need to stay 4 on 4 with 1/2” bolt. I don’t want big spacers I know I’ll have to have machined to fit the gold front hubs. I thought about buying the hubs bare and weld or bolt the two together. or the disc bolt pattern section. It looks like it make can be cut and machined to slide over my hub, then bolt or weld. But really, seems like Travis could whip out some concentric circle pattern, maybe a spacer, and weld it much like the original shown. They have this hub in bare steel or as a hub center only. Already made in USA and tapered bearings are serviceable and rated higher imo. Know why wwII Russian tanks withstood the bliztkrege? It was the first tank that pitched its outer armor at an angle, making the same steel thicker because it is a longer travel for the path of the bullet thru it. Tapered bearings increase bearing use the same principle. Maybe someone can tell me I assume wrongly and the standard style bearings and hub spacers plus another set of hubs makes that the better option :?:

Im really not crazy about the “import” front brakes kits in general, partly because of your issues and quality. But is a great budget option as far as the brake kit themselves, like everything else on my kart, do this -this now needs that, that needs this and snow balls. I have a HD Kit ordered and really only considering it because of the easier caliper mounts pre installed. I otherwise would just plan to match the rear MCP with their front set and just mod for that. I have a hard time settling so it just takes longer to get it all right. I just hope my 11 yo daughter isn’t out driving her car before I finish :shock: so in the spirit of KISS, I like the kit, but no way to keep my hub simple with my wheels.

I will be posting my build here soon, I told Travis as soon as my kit gets here I can mount my wheels I will. plenty of stock ones to look at online for now :lol:
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 #11521  by myvt365
 Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:58 am
We need to see a build thread! its hard for me to visualize this the problem I dint like with the 4X4 bolt pattern is it limited me to rim size. I am sure they make conversions but I know I put the atv hubs through hell and they take it hahah.
 #11549  by Travis @ Buggy Depot
 Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:02 am
CheethaSpeed wrote:It looks like it make can be cut and machined to slide over my hub, then bolt or weld. But really, seems like Travis could whip out some concentric circle pattern, maybe a spacer, and weld it much like the original shown.
It's an idea, I'll think on it. I'd actually prefer to phase out the 4x4 pattern in favor of 4x110. Let me know when you get ready and I'll make a decision on whether or not I want to R&D a retrofit rotor plate. You'll have problems with wobble if you don't have access to a lathe to true it after welding.
CheethaSpeed wrote:Tapered bearings increase bearing use the same principle. Maybe someone can tell me I assume wrongly and the standard style bearings and hub spacers plus another set of hubs makes that the better option :?:
You're right, but with the weight and power of the 150 class you won't really see any benefit. Not even in longevity IMO. But you will have to maintain tapered bearings more.

I'm planning to run the standard 150-class bearing style in the hubs on my Ninja-powered 32hp Crossfire 250R build.
CheethaSpeed wrote:Im really not crazy about the “import” front brakes kits in general, partly because of your issues and quality.
They work great and hold up. On a 150-class vehicle, they're perfect. Quality isn't an issue. I'll be running these same brake components on the 250R build as well.

Shawn and I had a conversation about the pain points he ran into. From my perspective, there were two problems. First, the factory changing "non-critical" dimensions on components between batches is a problem and tends to throw things off over time. With this, I depend on customer feedback in order to know that there is a problem. Then I can update the kit on our end so it's as smooth to install as when I first starting offering it. The second problem Shawn ran into was that there was also some hardware we missed adding to the box, which is on us.

Things tend to drift over time. Both at the factory level, and with training that can fade or become obsolete over time. The real underlying answer is that we need a certain volume of sales on any particular item in order to devote resources to keeping it updated and hassle-free. The solution may be to offer the front brakes included in a bigger discounted package so we get the volume we need, like what I'm doing with the Super-Duty Front End Kits.
CheethaSpeed wrote:I will be posting my build here soon, I told Travis as soon as my kit gets here I can mount my wheels I will. plenty of stock ones to look at online for now :lol:
Never too early to get started ;)
 #11557  by myvt365
 Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 am
I have to agree with Travis on this between 4x4 vs. 4x110 I did contemplate this a lot because by me there is a town that golf carts are legal on the streets. I have a vast amount of go kart shops and parts as well the 4x4 limits you to a size if your wanting to go big and do it cheaper the best way is the 4x110 bolt pattern its widely used on atvs. From a 4x110 bolt pattern you can easily adapt up to 30s if you wanted to. As far as the brake quality the rotor, lines, caliper, master cylinder, and reservoir are flat out amazing at a hard stop now my buggy will no joke flex the front suspension from stopping.
 #11563  by CheethaSpeed
 Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:34 am
I spent a great deal of time looking at wheels, tires, and hubs. My first priority was the wheel look and sizing. I looked at new, auctions sites, Craig’s list, etc way more than I care to admit. The lug pattern and hub was the ultimate result of the wheel selection. 4on4 7w x10x10 with 4/3 offset front and 4 on 110 10w x10x10 with 4/6 off set. I paid slightly more for the front rims, but less for tires. But no more cost than plain ol steel. My Wheel choice will make more sense with a pic, 8-) . So I’m not got to say one is better than the other but disagree that they are cheaper, more available, or easier. When you look at atv wheel sets, they come in several metric patterns and a lot of times different front to back. 4x110 isn’t even an overwhelming share of that market imo. Most atv wheels I saw were sold in pairs for this reason unless matched for models by vendors. The biggest problem I had was the small 10mm lug bolts, large center cut, and rarity of tapered lugs in 10x1.25. More on my kart in another post. Yes cheap tapered lock washer things are out there. Golf carts are almost exclusively 4on4 and are a great option for 8-10-12-14 diameters at any budget. Full sets with tires under 200 are out there and leaves room for hubs. Although those looking for max tire size may have different feelings about 4on4. I happen to prefer a lower profile tire for looks and performance. They are more prevalent in stylized wheels and maybe even in painted steel or spun aluminum styles-especially when you throw in one of 4 different metric options. I imagine if I were a vendor one lug pattern would make since for all, but manufacturers like apple like to cash in by making their’s different and exclusive-have to come to me decision, not based on you or me.

I had the option for tapered bearing, I took it. There is no such thing as a 4on4 disc brake hub made by anyone I’m aware of anywhere for anything. I don’t think my yerf will be facing a platoon of panzers, well, ever so I agree they wouldnt be a fail point with standard bearings. I’m kinda weird-I like maintenances, it’s the Hank Hill in me. :lol: Standard are more user friendly in every way, except for performance. So much of what I’m doing is over kill- Mostly spending :oops:

You look at the “gold” type hub across all vendors, I see differences like you mentioned. They all say the same thing, listing multiple brand names as fitment. You even alluded to the manufacturing changes effecting kits and require user input to correct. Issues across all parts I know you put vastly more time than I have and I can’t offer a profitability opinion because I’ve never been in buy/sell model business. I can relate to shop time rates of small scale manufacturing. So do I think this is a big ticket item? Not yet...wait there is more :twisted:

What takes this from maybe to worth your time? Either I just pay you for your time and materials, and that’s fine with me. For the investment part it would have to be a universal hub with multiple lug patterns in one, Atleast our two entrants but probably wouldn’t be much to add 4-115 for more flexibility. Then you drop the imports and sell only your hub. Let’s face it, the only reason to buy the kit from you is because you say it works, or loyalty. Similar kits and hubs are out their cheaper. There is only one BDX HD kit and one source. That made me do something I almost never do, shop on a new to me non major vendor web site to get what I want. We consumers like custom stuff! The center section of the bare hub core is available from Azusa I’m sure you could get a distributor pricing for more American parts. There are bare hub cores for standard bearings if preferred by you, not me. HD needs the HD’est stuff to be better than stock even at the risk of overkill. 4x110 owners wouldn’t prefer this over yours without tapered bearings, why would they? I think it makes them more desirable. Plus it would fit so many karts and they all would want your universal BDX HD universal disc brake hubs, anything with 5/8 spindles, even golf mods. Forget those user inputs to catch up because a new place made them slightly different this container. That’s the worse part of coverting any kart to front brakes-the hubs. You could package hubs and brakes with a premium kit option. Or a stand alone universal brake kit with hubs. Include your caliper bracket to be added over their 5/8 spindle. How many more hubs/brake kits would you sell if they fit almost everything? That hub makes every brake kit sold like it workable for almost any project. Or just an upgrade to upgrade. Bring any wheels.

What’s the break point for me? Cost is one concern, but I hate spending money twice more. I have your hub with a spacer option that will require machining to seat properly on both sides. Hubs and spacers +/- 200$. Machineshop $100+?? Anything else? So I’m 300 + in before I’ve bought brakes. Not to mention the $90 on hubs already spent. It’s not that I can’t spend that, but that I don’t want to spend it on that. Just feels like going sideways at best with a expensive patch. I’m mainly focused on critical functions right now, well critical is a loose term :D I do want front brakes but with these issues I’ll just focus on other areas until i can work it out. I do have a local machine shop that’s done work for me on this project already so in that way I have access to anything. So don’t feel bad to tell me no, I will make it work when I get to it either way. And I’m a big boy :cry: But I would dump it in your lap if you let me. I’m ready when you are for that. (y) I did want BDX first and take advantage your unique qualifications to handle this task. I know I’m reaching to find benefits for you, answers always no if you don’t ask. Plus everyone else zones out on me when I get technical in my house.... :roll:

My quality concerns are more on hit or miss quality in general across all parts etc, not design. See Honda clones, some good ones, some bad-almost impossible to know. I believe they will stop it fine. I like the cost for a compete kit for what one caliper costs, but it is at the expense of quality imo. But I get it, I have to cut cost somewhere. :(

In general, I’m more a proponent of making things more universal or adaptive. I’m about halfway more toward your 250 project. Awesome, but not for the faint of heart to tackle. I don’t think I’ll ever tell anyone the real cost.

Thanks for your time to respond!

365-post coming you know I can post pics :lol:
 #11588  by CheethaSpeed
 Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:13 pm
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My rear hub, BMI metric hub then machined To fit center of rim, 10mm lugs swapped lugs to 1/2”
The other lug pattern is 4x115
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Back of front hub
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Front hub-ugly spindle and a arms are temporary :mrgreen:

I’ll save the front wheel pics for the build post. You see I have a problem with long posts, so I’m trying to stay on the brake hub here.
 #11605  by CheethaSpeed
 Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:48 am
myvt365 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 am
I have to agree with Travis on this between 4x4 vs. 4x110
Shawn aren’t you in the 4x156 wheel camp? I see so many wheel adapters sold on karts. A universal/multi lug hub makes so much sense to me. Like Shawn and me, we found wheels outside 4x110. I’m sure there a lot of us that do.