[Updated] 1-Star Review from Bobby Stephens (from BBB) [Updated to 4-star 5/9/18]

[Bobby]

Travis,
It's been over a week....almost two. I don't need a long drawn out explanation. What I need is for you to hold up your side of the agreement. I can almost guarantee that you measured that piston and cylinder the minute you got them. So why no response? I also know that my measurements were 100%. I tripple checked, had a profesional shop check, and on top of that took them into a perfomance shop for measurments. I don't know how it happened nor do I care. What i do care about is the fact that you wanted to charge me for YOUR time, i think it only fair that you re emberse me for mine.
Please up hold to our deal

[Travis @ Buggy Depot]

Posted this morning:

Heads up: Waiting for an message from me? I'm catching up today.

You're included in this. I haven't opened your return yet.

You can ask any of these guys what I've been doing for the past two weeks. I've consistently said that you and I spent far too much time at first just to get to real issues, and that it was blocking them up. I've already spent hours with you at the expense of other customers, so I'm fine with the reverse happening now. I'm going to take a bit more time on this until I'm caught up on those guys. I'm aware how the silence can be perceived, doesn't change the fact that I'm more obligated to ship their product than inspect your return right now.

This touches on something I've been wanting to cover for a while. One of the worst ways to get a speedy and reliable resolution (from me) is to pad your complaint with false or exaggerated concerns in an attempt to bolster your case. This review is a good example. When I get a complaint, I'm going to address each concern raised (valid or not) so people get an accurate view of the issue from my perspective. If it takes too much time to cut through false points, well then that is your time allotment as I see it. Beyond a reasonable point, your issue will have to fit in where I can fit it in. Look at my first response to your complaint, and each post after. The time that would normally be used to quickly inspect your return was already spent on addressing whether or not you read the listing, etc.

Travis,
It's been over a week....almost two. I don't need a long drawn out explanation. What I need is for you to hold up your side of the agreement. I can almost guarantee that you measured that piston and cylinder the minute you got them. So why no response? I also know that my measurements were 100%. I tripple checked, had a profesional shop check, and on top of that took them into a perfomance shop for measurments. I don't know how it happened nor do I care. What i do care about is the fact that you wanted to charge me for YOUR time, i think it only fair that you re emberse me for mine.
Please up hold to our deal

[CheethaSpeed]

I understand you maybe frustrated. From the outside looking in, it wouldn’t matter what you sent me, I wouldn’t trust Your word for anything. Maybe he can verify it’s one of his, but I imagine that bum miscellaneous pistons or what ever abound for the common shade tree with a few projects laying around knowing almost enough to do something right. Your constant attacking tone suggests guilt and a rush to your resolution rather than resolving an issue. Instead of a short hey what’s up man checking in you go thru a long drawn out deal to ask him not to do the same? I know you had to see his post about catching up. Make you mad other people got parts coming? I’m sure see what he has been up to if it bothers you that bad. You frustrate me. I would still be ignoring you. But no one would be reading about it but it may not just be the read quite like you thought it would. You don’t come off as a victim if that’s what’s your aiming for. Just saying. You could be right. And knowing Travis he will do what he said he would. He just didn’t say when, and your not helping yourself there when you can only do so much in a day. Why not help the people who appreciate it it, that’s what I would do. They are the ones that keep the doors open. That’s ultimately how I prioritize ultimately, what keeps the doors open and the lights on. You waited a little over a week but you got your new parts already didn’t you? You were all happy on the take, now you just still got your hand out. Surprise you sir are extorting him with this bad review at this point. You wouldn’t have gotten anything out of me unless you paid to send it back, and it would have been voided if anyone had opened it after it was sent out. Seem pretty lucky to get what you got the way you got it, now you seem greedy and impatient about it. Fyi

[Travis @ Buggy Depot]

Alright Bobby, let's get this wrapped up.

I measured your cylinder, and you're right - it's a 61mm piston and cylinder. There isn't any explanation I can think of other than being inadvertently sent a 61mm kit from the supplier. To make sure this can never happen again, I'm going to machine a go/no-go gauge from a 62mm piston that will be used on every engine being built going forward.

If anyone else who bought a 175cc from us around Jun 23, 2017 is worried that you may also have a 61mm, let me know and I'll start a new thread - to check, confirm, and recall if necessary.

As promised, I'm putting my entire box 61mm pistons up on eBay for $10 for the lot. And I'm issuing you a credit of 100 doll......

Wait, there is a problem...




I've highlighted in green where you are correct, and stating factual information. I highlighted in red where you are misrepresenting things again.

Personal attacks and Badgering
People tend present things in ways that support their feelings more than facts, and you've done that repeatedly and unapologetically in our interactions. I feel obligated (and fine) calling you out on false statements. My responses are direct and to the point, but you seem to be implying that I'm being aggressive/abusive. If you believe this, give specific examples. Are you actually feeling attacked? If not you, then who specifically?

A false implication is a lie, Bobby. You know what you're doing.

I want was many of my visitors as possible to read and consider my responses in complaints.
Our reviews and my responses are openly viewable on the Buggy Depot homepage for everyone to see who may be considering purchasing from us on a daily basis. My reviews section isn't a hidden club - it's extremely public, fully transparent, promoted in a prominent location on the Buggy Depot home page, and wide open for all of our potential customers to see. I've willingly and openly handled customer complaints in public here uncensored for over the last 13 years - our entire history is here.

My problem is when a complaint or review is less than honest, or is based on unreasonable expectations. In a minority of cases, certain individuals go way too far and significantly cross the line. I'm talking about guys who use drama and exaggerate their complaint in an effort to extort more from the seller than they actually deserve in the situation.

For me, dealing with complaints isn't just about responding and hoping they go away. If we make a mistake, my history in reviews shows that I take responsibility and correct the problem. However, if a person isn't speaking truthfully or makes unreasonable demands, it becomes about sending a message to everyone reading that certain corrupt behaviors in complaints will not work here. I want my 1,800 daily visitors to see me as an Owner actively calling out alternate facts, exaggerations, and in some cases outright lies. I'm fine with being controversial and a bit unconventional. Agree with my approach or not, I'm completely transparent and up-front about it.

If a reviewer feels embarrassed after evidence and screenshots show that elements of their complaint aren't truthful, then my message (both content and tone) is having its intended effect. I want this behavior to be discouraged and socially unacceptable. You can be upset in your review, just don't be fake, exaggerate, or make up things that didn't happen.

The BBB is good, but doesn't have enough reach.



Our homepage gets 1800 views per day, which is why I put these reviews there, front and center.
I'm going to continue calling out fake review behavior directly and consistently, and will continue to figure out more ways to get this message in front of more of our potential customers up front. If I were acting aggressive or abusive in reviews, it's open for the whole world to see and judge for themselves. Having these reviews on our homepage makes it impossible for me to hide anything.

Fake Reviews and Cowards
I agree that "What to do about 1-star cowards. My thoughts." is a good title to raise eyebrows. I worded it that way specifically to get more people to click on the title, read my post, and consider what I'm saying.

Intentionally taking the title out of context and turning into a soundbite is fake news. It's a lie. You're presenting my words in a false context and hoping people are too busy to read the link. Anyone who hasn't already, should read the full post and not let fake news win.

Now specific to you: I haven't put your complaint into the fake reviews category, because it doesn't belong there. You didn't run away after I showed several of your initial points to be untrue, you worked with me towards a resolution. So no, I don't consider you a coward. But I still have to call you out. You play very loosely with the truth. After this interaction, I'm considering add a 5th condition to the fake reviews section related to repeated intentional and willful misrepresentation. Liars.

A half true statement isn't the same thing as a true statement, Bobby.

Since we keep running into this problem in which you repeatedly misrepresent the situation with half-truths, I'm going to misrepresent my own offer to half of its original amount. I've issued you $50. To everyone reading this: I won't accommodate people who aren't playing straight. I'm going to treat individuals with the same level of respect and patience they're showing us. Don't get upset if the reflection in the mirror is something you don't like.

I'm going to go ahead and write a response to the BBB calling attention to my point of view here. Again, transparency is the key. People can judge my position for themselves and order accordingly.

And Cheetha raises several good points. Whether people agree with me or not, this forum is open for anyone to comment. Anyone who agrees with Bobby is 100% welcome to speak their mind, and can articulate a case that might change my mind about things. That's how freedom works.

'Murica.

[CheethaSpeed]

Bobby,

I’m am no follower. I am a customer. I offered you perspective beyond your own. That customer is always right saying was said by someone now out of buisness. You did not come off as a victim of horrible service. You got all your parts after a mistake and a shady imo inspection system including third party mechanics and questionable pics plus refusing to return it in full as received and now you are extorting the review system for your own personal gain. Your the one getting paid for this review buddy .
I bet your so mad you won’t spend that credit. sure

[Travis @ Buggy Depot]

[Bobby]

Travis,
Somewhere within this long feed, someone had mentioned that you were a "a man of your word" and if you made a mistake you would take care of it. You most definitely are a man of many words! But NOT a man of your word. You've done nothing but attack me since day one. Calling me overdramatic, calling me a liar so on and so on. In your feed where one of your customers bought the wrong wiring harness, not only did you attack him as you did me, but "Your Follower" told him that he needed to get out of the hobby. First I have to say, if that's not an attack, I don't know what is. Secondly, what kind of business would say such things? Obviously if that customer knew what he was doing, he wouldn't have reached out to you. I gave the BBB a link to the feed so that they could make their own determination. Whether you think you are attacking or defending is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is, WHAT I SAID WAS NOT A LIE ITS MY PERSEPTION AND MY OPINON!
But that's okay. If you want to dock our AGREEMENT because I voiced my thoughts, you go right ahead. I wouldn't have even needed the BBB again if you would have just upheld our agreement.

"The return's arrived,I'll take a look today. If it really is a 61mm, I'll issue you the $100 credit immediately".

A month later and after getting BBB involved again I finally get another response....
You go ahead and make an example of me. Show your customers how you tried to rip me off and got caught. Show them that if anyone makes a complaint with your business they will be treated like I have been treated. Show them that I had to PROVE to you that YOU somehow messed up. Show them that even though I was right, you still cant man up and uphold an agreement. You had to find an excuse to not follow through!
How dare I stand up to you!
buggy depot is bad business plan and simple!.......I bet you're going to dock the other $50 now too.... cause that's the type of crook you are. But once again these are my personal thoughts a beliefs. (as you would call them, lies) let your readers (if there are any) make their own decisions.

[Travis @ Buggy Depot]

Somewhere within this long feed, someone had mentioned that you were a "a man of your word" and if you made a mistake you would take care of it. You most definitely are a man of many words! But NOT a man of your word. You've done nothing but attack me since day one.

Silently sending you $100 and a new cylinder kit would have been the cheapest, quickest, and easiest way to make the situation go away. It's much harder and more expensive to take a political stand against what I feel are corrupt review behaviors, and doing what I feel is right. It's time consuming and it's risky. I've spent the 30+ hours to make my case, and articulated my position at each step. Everything is documented here. Perception and judgement is open to the reader, as it should be.

Fact of the matter is, WHAT I SAID WAS NOT A LIE ITS MY PERSEPTION AND MY OPINON!

I'm not saying you're a liar, I'm saying that you've lied in several specific and provable instances. There's a difference. I'm not going after your character. I'm going after your words and actions. Contrast that to how you've spoken about me in a very broadly maligning way.

Many people who go on the offensive are also the first people to feel gravely offended (attacked) when called out for inconsistencies and inaccuracies in their own position. Flip-flopping from attacker to victim. Look - you're entitled to compensation for mistakes on our end. And you're entitled to your opinion of those mistakes, and of us. However, you're not entitled to altering facts and making things bigger or worse than they actually were. Just like I'm responsible for accuracy of my parts, you are responsible for the accuracy for your words.

My point is, you should be able to tell your story without embellishment. And you should be emotionally fit enough to handle criticism of your criticism if you overstep. If you make a bad point, it's a bad point. We all make mistakes, it's what you do when called out on those mistakes that matters.

"Your Follower" told him that he needed to get out of the hobby. First I have to say, if that's not an attack, I don't know what is. Secondly, what kind of business would say such things?

"My follower". If that's not a lie, I don't know what it is. The man is a paying customer with his own brain. He's spent as much as you have, and has his own opinions, the same as you. He's called me out in a different thread here on the forum for inconsistencies he perceived in my actions. I want everyone reading to have a critical eye for bullshit, including my behavior. Any loyalty people have for me is earned.

And Cheetha is right about John's situation. If you buy a project kart, it's your project. The guy was overly entitled, and that kind of outlook has no place here. If he's the kind of guy that needs support from the manufacturers, then he needs to buy a vehicle that is supported by the manufacturers. Not a SunL.

In the end, if a guy's first interaction with the community is with hands extended with palms up and nose in the air, I'm fine with them being told to GTFO. The manufacturers abandoned us all. You're either with us, or figuring it out on your own.

buggy depot is bad business plan and simple!...... that's the type of crook you are.

I disagree. And I think it's time we wish each other good luck, and move on.

You can be surprised that you ran into an Owner that is present, involved, and speaks up. It's true that I don't immediately fold and accept points that I feel are BS. You can be offended. You can be mad. But you can also purchase parts from another business that is more compatible with your outlook and beliefs.

let your readers (if there are any) make their own decisions.

This thread has influenced 900+ potential customers in its time on the home page. I've probably lost some, and probably gained some others. The overall approach is working. People are looking. and things are naturally filtering the way they should.

[CheethaSpeed]

I’m flattered Bad Review Bobby thinks so much of me. Bobby the malcontent must have been taught that whining works. Means and methods are the business Owners right. You gave a 1 star review for at worse a 3 star issue, but really other than the timing you don’t have anything left to complain about do you Bobby? You still show an extra $80 in your pocket an you give the guy zero credit for filling your original order before you returned your parts for review. He has done enough and couldn’t do enough to satisfy the malcontents. I appreciate that he is available but you would rather hit and run bad review at the BBB to get your free loot. Answering for what you say is harder to do. I’m here. If you want a random china made buggy, you better be self motivated and self education or your in the wrong hobby. If you want free help from message board strangers-you better be tach full. I know you have no clue what that means-your life will go easier if you learn tach alone. Sometimes the truth doesn’t sound nice, but it’s not mean or bulling. It’s insecurity of the incapable that response thusly. He is correct -he has earned my respect -you couldn’t.

[Bobby]

Through this long feed folks will see that Travis and I butted heads. CONSISTANTLY! (His perceptions vs my perceptions. His opinions vs mine) But I'm going to give credit where it is due.
I was actually surprised that Travis took responsibility and admitted (here in public) that buggy depot had made a mistake. Honestly After all the back and forth, I expected him to come back to this forum and make statements along the lines of my measurements were wrong or something else completely. The fact that he didn't REALLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT HIS INTEGRITY.
Most people or companies would have tried to completely discredit me just to save face. Fact of the matter is, I did receive all my parts and the issue with the engine was eventually corrected.
Just for clarification: I never expected or wanted anything more than what I paid for. I bought and paid for a new engine because I didn't have the time or want to rebuild the one I had. It wasn't until Travis stated that I would have to pay for his time if I was wrong, that I decided I should be paid for mine if he was wrong. I felt that it was fair and so did he. So, cheethaspeed where you feel I was looking for free hand outs, I wasn't. Do you think I should pay for a built engine if I had to build it?
I apologize for calling Travis a crook. If anything I said was false, it would be this statement. Travis could have easily told me to F*** off but he didn't. He did in fact compensate me for my time and, after some thought $50.00 is a fair compensation.
I would also apologize if buggy depot lost business due to this feed on this forum. It's really too bad that either one of us had to go through this.